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Saturday, December 10, 2011

Rick Perry, candidate for President of the United States of America, and Rabbi Jason Miller

Rick Perry has had made some interesting statements in his quest to obtain the Republican nomination and eventual win to the Office of POTUS, President Of The United States. Many times, Rick Perry makes a gaffe, and then comes back to retract his statement of this or that, of one kind or another.

Gaffes notwithstanding, many times Rick Perry makes statements concerning religion and government. In fact, Rick Perry has does so to such an extent that it appears to me he has essentially proclaimed his desire to have Christianity officially recognized as the national religion of the United States. However, much to the chagrin of Rick Perry and people who share Rick Perry's view on the Christian religion and American public policy, that darn First Amendment keeps getting in the way.

Well, Rabbi Jason Miller has responded to Rick Perry in a very thought-provoking way. I suggest you click on over to read:
Response to Rick Perry's Campaign Ad

11 comments:

CWMartin said...

I knew that Perry was putting his foot in it when I first saw the ad. However to label the war on religion as crazy talk is not looking at the facts. Atheists are ACTIVELY trying to drive Christianity into the home alone, where it can be more easily extinguished. If you don't believe that to be true, you have not looked into their websites and facebook posts to research. And when a Christian or group thereof mentions that their rights are being abridged, they are labelled intolerant. I'm not talking the casual agnostic. I mean the hard core atheist who considers himself an evangelist to drive God from schools and courts and shopping centers. When you confront them, it's "my belief doesn't hurt anything, stop persecuting me." But if you say the same, you get, " you are entitled and need to shut up". I am sorry, but not only must I consider atheism Satan's highest form of perversion, but if you look into it, it is hopelessly intertwined with the LGBT movements which for me would be #2. That said, Perry dug his own grave; don't throw those honestly defending themselves against the war on religion in with him.

dalepertcheck said...

First of all, most who state that no one may pray in a public school have little experience in a public school. Students pray every day in public schools throughout this nation. Where I taught last year, there was a Christian club which met in our public school several times a year. It met after regular school hours. I attended a few of their meetings. They prayed...right there...in a public school. Individual prayer is and always has been allowed. A student may carry a bible (or a Koran, or any other religious book, or a book by Madeline Murray O'Hare, for that matter) with him/her wherever he/she goes in any public school if he/she chooses to do so.

What is NOT allowed in a public school, is an organized prayer where all students are to say the prayer in unison. That violates the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution which clearly states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..." If one wants his/her child to have a particular religious experience while attending school, one need only send his/her child to one of the innumerable religious schools in America!

What if your child were to attend a public school in Dearborn, Michigan, with a majority of Muslims in his/her school? Would you be comfortable with that school having a Muslim prayer to start each day? What if your child were to attend a public school in Provo, Utah, where the majority of the students were Mormons? Would you be comfortable with a prayer from the Book of Mormon being articulated in unison to start each day? How about a Shinto prayer to begin the day in a San Francisco public school where the majority of students come from Japanese families?

Freedom of religion is also freedom from a religion that is one with which you do not agree! That's what many of our forefathers and foremothers came to this country to find. They sought to leave nations which had official religions, and discriminated against any who did not practice that particular faith. You would destroy that dream.

As far as Christmas is concerned, any individual may put up a Christmas display in his/her yard, including a full nativity scene, if one so chooses. Every single Christian Church in America may have an outdoor religious display year round, not just in December! My wife and I passed by a church a couple of times today that invites all who choose to drive through a live Nativity scene! If you think that the Christian faith is so weak that not having full displays on public property will mean the end of Christian Churches in America, you truly are, "Ye of little faith."

CWMartin said...

Dalepertcheck, I am assuming that your response is not directed at me. If it was. you would have recognized that I said I was talking about "evangelical atheists" and not those who truly believe in a benevolent seperation of Church and state.
However, I will point out some things vis-a-vis your response. First, your second paragraph is right - in principle. The fact is that Christians (and others) are constantly having to fight battles to be able to do what you described in the first paragraph.
Of course I will also point out that the freedom of religion clause was meant to prevent a government-RUN denomination from claiming tithes in taxes and allegiance in rights. It was never intended to totally divorce the practice of faith from the workings of government. And while I have no real problem with the interpretation AS YOU PUT IT, I think that when a town OVERWHLMINGLY wants a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn, they have a right to do so. If a minority doesn't like it, they have the right to do just as you did- drive on by. This is supposed to by a government of the PEOPLE (i.e. the majority of the people) where the rights of minorities are RESPECTED- but not minority rule. I've had atheist pseudo intellectuals tell me that the government is there TO elevate the minority in the face of the majority (not surprising seeing the side of the fence they're on), and I will disagree to my last ounce of freedom with that.

dalepertcheck said...

The Toledo phone book yellow pages lists churches on EIGHT PAGES! Toledo has HUNDREDS of Christian churches! And you still need a religious display on government property to affirm your faith? How profoundly sad!

dalepertcheck said...

By the way, I drive around Ohio a lot. I've yet to drive through any Ohio town that does not have a church in or near the town center which would be a perfectly appropriate place for a religious display.

I have also attended worship services in innumerable houses of worship. I often state that I always leave every house of worship feeling better than when I entered it.

CWMartin said...

You don't pay attention. I said "I think that when a town OVERWHLMINGLY wants a nativity scene on the courthouse lawn, they have a right to do so." Are you one of those "one atheist in a town full of Christian" types? If you are talking about a town that has those options, FINE. I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH YOU. But if you are threatened by a nativity scene in a town you don't live in, that isn't freakin' doing you a single bit of harm, that is approved BY THE TOWN IN QUESTION, then you have a nerve to call anyone "profoundly sad."

This is why I argue with "evangelical atheists". They pretend all they want is "equal treatment under the law" but their words and actions are anything but. I'm not lumping you in this category- yet- but you are starting to make me wonder.

dalepertcheck said...

A town that is overwhelmingly Christian also has a Christian church or churches as a focal point or focal points of the community. At those sites, religious scenes are both appropriate and understandable.

I am not an atheist, but some of my friends are. My faith does not require religious scenes to be constructed on public lands. I feel sorry for you that your faith is so weak. There are not enopugh Christian churches to affirm your belief. That is profoundly sad!

CWMartin said...

D D D. I never said it was for me, or for anything but a hypothetical town. Your take on my faith is a bit condescending, don'tcha think? And frankly, way down at the bottom of your various attempts to insult me, there is a kernel of truth. As Christians, we have bigger fish to fry than worrying about what a nonbeliever gets up their gussets about nativity scenes. I admit that my problem is taking the bait when I know by now this battle isn't mine- UNTIL it steps into my town or knocks on my door.

However, I lose a bit of perspective when running into someone whose apparent purpose in conversation is to find excuses to label me "profoundly sad." And the "weakness" of my faith iss between me and my God, just as the problem with "judge not lest ye be judged" is yours.

dalepertcheck said...

In America, religion is a personal right which everyone carries everywhere he/she goes. Religious displays belong at religious facilities, not on government land. Period.

CWMartin said...

Ah, the leopard shows his spots at last. We're done here.

CWMartin said...

Ah, the leopard shows his spots at last. We're done here.