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Thursday, August 18, 2011

Politicians and Government, A Facebook Dialogue


I always find it interesting that some people like to think of themselves as experts in some field, e.g. politics, government, the English language, home repairs, health and fitness, religion, cultural beliefs, etc., and then attempt to pass that facade onto others who they may or may not know. I find it especially interesting when it comes to internet bulletin boards, social networks, blogs and the like. Somethings really grab my attention, like the subjects of government and politics. Generally, I take the approach of attempting to have an intelligent exchange, but some folks just hang on to their own misinformation in an attempt to justify their own beliefs; at times, during such situations, I may point out my background in those areas in order to indicate that I am not without some education and experience in the subject areas. I do so in the sincere attempt of establishing credibility; however, some folks are so insecure in their own credibility that they turn to attacking me personally when I have pointed out my "credentials" in the topics under discussion. One such incident just recently happened; and, I wish to share it with you.

This is a copy and paste job of a Facebook exchange I had over the past two days on the topics of Politicians and Government:

Deana Bloecher (via Daryl Hansen)
Here's something to think about. A politician sees his family everyday, a deployed SOLDIER once in 6 months. A politician flies 1st class; a SOLDIER flies in a C130. A politician's pension is not reduced; a SOLDIER'S is clawed 65%. A politician enjoys an expense account; a SOLDIER must justify extra rations. A politician vows to defend their country; a SOLDIER actually keeps that promise. REPOST IF YOU SUPPORT OUR TROOPS Thanks for sharing

Roland Hansen
I served many years as a politician and while doing so I did not get to see my family very much, I did not fly first class, I did not receive a pension from it, I did not have an expense account, and I served my country with sweat equity. To make broad generalized statements about politicians is a great disservice. Go to my information page and review my background; it speaks for itself.

Jude Cohoon Beretta Banks
Depends on what kind of local, state or Federal...most of what is talked about in the above has to do with Federal Politicians yes I also know they don't see their family everyday..but see them MORE that the Soldier...........

Roland Hansen
Why in the world would anyone paint all politicians with one broad brush? That is just like any other form of prejudice; like saying all Jews are ... or all Blacks are ... or all Polish people are ... or all blondes are ... or all Catholics are ... or all Mexicans are ... Get my drift???? Shame, shame, shame! A person can be an advocate for our troops without putting some one else down.

Jude Cohoon Beretta Banks
Roland, in all my years I've seen more Politicians waste money, don't do what WE THE PEOPLE ask of them and think of just themselves. To me there are MORE like that than are not...They think that WE THE PEOPLE have pockets that just keep on filling up magically when they get empty just to cover what THEY (Politicians) miss spend & raise our taxes....Oh yeah while THEY give themselves pay raises...Yes my husband & I use to be in the middle income level both worked husband owned small business we lived below our means didn't OWN anyone any money...guess what we are in the low income level now...ONLY CHANGES CAME FROM OUR POLITICIANS & TAXES Oh yeah both of us are Veterans it's really Shame Shame Shame on 90% of the Politicians..........

Roland Hansen
Jude: Ignorance is bliss, as is rationalization and denial. You speak of WE THE PEOPLE and yet fail to acknowledge that those politicians of which you speak were duly elected BY THE PEOPLE, i.e. by the majority of the electorate who are WE THE PEOPLE. Additionally, when those duly elected officials perform their duties on behalf of WE THE PEOPLE, they do so in their official capacity of Representatives OF THE PEOPLE. You, Jude, speak for yourself; you have not been elected BY THE PEOPLE to represent WE THE PEOPLE. Shame on you for demonstrating a lack of understanding and knowledge of the workings of a representative democracy form of government, i.e. a Republic. I award you an "F" in the subject of American Government. None-the-less, you are entitled to your opinion and our Constitution guarantees your right to express that opinion. Another aspect of our system of government is: Majority Rules and Minority Rights.

Jude Cohoon Beretta Banks
Oh...but if you look at things how it has changed over the years you find that it's the Minority that Rules on a lot of Pledge of allegiance out of most schools, Bible out of the schools, OK to burn the Flag as freedom of speech etc etc...Also if you look to see how the elections are won...I will use my home state Washington as an example....due to population 99% of the state can vote one way while the King/Kipsat county votes another...those counties wipe all the other votes out...just like New York City wipes out what the rest of the state votes for....there needs to be a change but I don't have the answer to that Can you come up with one??? So WE THE PEOPLE feel like we have a far shake at what is going on in OUR government???

Jude Cohoon Beretta Banks
Oh yeah Roland...just so you know I'm an Conservative Independent who believe in our Constitution and think that Our government should go back to the way of Our Forefathers...go to Washington for 3 months GET THE JOB DONE and go back to their home state and work a Real job....

Roland Hansen
Jude, to use that old-fashioned Conservative phrase, "America, love it or leave it." Your display of "poor loser" syndrome is obvious. If you think you can do better, run for office yourself. Or, is it easier to sit back and play "pity me, I am so oppressed." Give me a break! Oh yeah Jude, just so you know, I just happen to be a retired person who taught American government at the University of Toledo and at Owens Community College. I was also inducted into Pi Sigma Alpha, the National Political Science Honor Society and into PI Alpha Alpha, the National Honor Society for Public Affairs and Administration. And you think you are the expert, eh? I am out of here. I see no use in wasting my time with a closed-minded person whose motto may as well be "Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind is made up."

Jude Cohoon Beretta Banks
Roland...I'm not closed a good discussion so I can learn things...seems to me you are the 'closed minded person here' called me ignorant...but I know there are already federal laws on the books about balance budget & deficit reduction...too bad the elected Officials don't an thought there should be an amendment added to the Constitution just for that.....also you don't know if I was or am in politics...just grabbing at a straw there...My mind is never made up...But I can see learn & feel... That's what is GREAT about the US of A...........we have the freedom to speak our minds, learn & live....we also have the freedom to agree to disagree with knot heads.........

Jude Cohoon Beretta Banks
Oh yeah it looks like you are too educated to think like a small time taxpayer....I never said I was 'an expert' but you seem to think you are due to all your education...tend to think it's funny when people have to through their education into a conversation........

Jude Cohoon Beretta Banks
Oh yeah it looks like you are too educated to think like a small time taxpayer...I never said I was 'an expert' but you seem to think you are due to ALL your education...tend to think it's funny when people have to throw their education into a conversation...I learned the more educated a person think they are they tend NOT to have any common sense...


I guess I showed my arrogance in that exchange. However, I just cannot stand it when someone makes broad generalized statements based on assumptions rather than fact, rationalizes his or her opinion regardless of the facts presented, and then attempts to circumvent the whole thing by switching the gears of the conversation into a tangential side attack to avoid the original topic.

Comments, anyone? Bring it on, people!


CWMartin said...

My only comment is that- and please don't take offense- is that politicians, like many other groups, have succeeded in making caricatures of themselves, perhaps not by majority action, but certainly by noticed action. A good politician doesn't take to the soapbox and say, "Look what I did for grandma down the street!" But a bad pol ends up on the six o'clock news.

And it also has to do with results, although the same scenario applies, especially in this world of polarization.

Critically, though, you can never win an argument by showing off your PHDs, any more than by wrapping yourself in the banner of the common man. Roland, I know you to be intelligent, because I've seen the example you normally set; Jude sees someone who a)"thinks he's smarter than I am," and B) whose "defending my enemy". If you can get this guy to go from "all politicians" to "90% of politicians", you've won as much of the argument as you are going to.

Roland Hansen said...

Thank you for your comments. They are very well stated and well-taken, indeed.