Commentary by Roland Hansen of Toledo, Ohio (Lucas County) on: politics; current events; community involvement; citizen participation; consumer advocacy; and governmental responsibility, responsiveness, and accountability.
With all due respect, CW Martin, I did not state anything nasty or derogatory. Nor did I even mention political parties, let alone Democrats or Republicans as you have done. The meme that I have posted uses the terms "conservatives" and "liberals" which are poitical perspectives, not political parties. Additionally, the meme only points out issues in which conservatives and liberals have differed and the results on each issue mentioned. The wording in the meme does not castigate or chastise or belittle; it simply states its point in nonjudgemental terminology. For the life of me, I do not understand why you inferred anything other than what was stated. I did not personally comment on anything. I did not chastise or belittle anyone, I did not castigate or chastise or challenge any individual as you appear to be doing so to me as an individual in the comments you have written. Indeed, the wording used in and the inferred tone of your comments (as opposed to my blog entry) serve as a good example that illustrates the concerns I have expressed regarding Facebook dialogues to which you yourself referenced in your comments. As a retired adjunct college instructor of political science and of American National Government, I believe it appropriate to mention that historically the political parties to which you refer, i.e. Republicans and Democrats, as well as other political parties, have both gone through periods of time in which they underwent (and still are undergoing) the processes of realignment and dealignment. Without further comment from me on that, I suggest you go to the following embedded link to read Party Identification Topic 2: Party Realignment and Dealignment..
Conservatives oppose voting for a candidate several times, or when dead, by using voter ID. Liberals won. Conservatives oppose raising the minimum wage, causing many small businesses to shutter doors or move production overseas. Liberals are winning. Conservatives opposed unemployment insurance for illegal drug users and those who simply don't want to work. Liberals are winning, going so far as to get the illegal drugs legalized. Conservatives opposed the dumbing down of schools. Fact is, since the decision on school prayer, American education has been on a slow slide downward. Liberals won their common core in many states, which guidelines make consequences minimal and the act of educating nearly useless. Thank God our governor got rid of that nonsense and set us to develop goals from which a student might get an education rather than a pat on the head. Liberals won the Affordable care act. If they want to claim that mess go ahead.
Point is, you don't put up such a meme not expecting someone to read between the lines. And you don't expect an intelligent person to not respond to things that are designed to be inflammatory, whether the enflaming agent is well hidden or not. And finally, while the parties do change with the times, the over all philosophy has ever been the same, and to defend a movement because of "that was in the past" and "I didn't mention anything about parties" is a cop-out.
While I didn't mention you in my last list of negatives (only bringing up the FB post about you personally), you took it personally. But I shouldn't take it personally if say, George W Bush takes a largely undeserved beating. Truth is I don't. Bush II made a lot of mistakes. But I will stand up when I see things I believe are biased or skewed.
Roland I enjoy most of your posts. But it seems a lot of times that I comment from "my side of the fence", you insist on taking it as a personal attack. Lorne Michaels recently said that SNL avoids doing skits teasing liberals because they can't take a joke, where conservatives can take a joke at face value and shrug it off. No one will ever accuse Lorne of being a conservative. Honestly, if you are going to have political discussions, you can't take everything personal.
I expressed this a while back on your post about attacking those who serve in government. Once you are in the public eye, you become a target. Whether you are Jane Popstar out for a drink with the girls wearing no panties, or Joe Smalltownmayor caught with his hand in the cookie jar, you are a target. You have to get a thick skin if you wanna play the game. If my comment about that meme is going to get to you, you may want to re-assess.
As always, I thank you for your comments. I do appreciate your point-counterpoint approach. It is enlightening. As I reflect upon that which you have written and as I am responding here, a phrase comes to my mind, i.e. "All politics is personal." At any rate, as the phrase came to my mind as I was composing this, I did a web search and came upon an interesting entry in the Daily Kos that was published on March 23, 2010 and I would ask that you read it. It is contained in the following embedded link: 'All politics is personal' byteacherken.
Again, I thank you for your thought-provoking comments. And thank you for putting up with me.
As I read the article, once again I saw the attacks about the Tea Party using the N-word, etc, etc, which I personally have NEVER heard despite tuning into a very TP talk show host on a semi-regular basis. In response to those things I'd have to say, you (the writer, not you, Roland) might learn more about the TP if you listened to actual mainstream members rather than the whackjobs that the media like to hunt down.
Another thing I noticed is THIS line:
"It is personal when you are willing to destroy our political system if you cannot persuade the people to give you the reins of power. Remember, you and your party had those reins, and were rejected by the American people in two successive elections, by fairly substantial margins." I find this amusing to be directed at the TP which is trying to UPHOLD the constitution, when the President has been quite clear in word and deed he's going to go around it if necessary.
It is easy for they writer, refusing to see both sides to accuse the TP of such things as subverting the government, but what he doesn't see is that HIS chosen politicians are doing the same thing AND conservatives (not just TPers, which I am not) feel that HIS beliefs are doing the same things he accuses them of.
IMHO, this is the kind of article that serves no useful purpose, and only serves to drag us down, because the writer is no more correct in his opinions than the people he lashes out against.
OOpps, lunch is calling, if I think of more on this, I'll be back. Just keep in mind, there are faces behind the rhetoric on our side, too. Like those who are losing coverage because of Obamacare making it too expensive on their employer. I know of a dude with autoimmune disease who has amazingly expensive treatments who is losing his coverage. Before, the work insurance made his costs somewhat manageable. Now, Even the cheapest plan he can get on the exchange is beyond him. Plus, he'll have to pay a fine if he doesn't bankrupt himself to pay for it. For every one Obamacare helps, there are a LOT it hurts.
5 comments:
Democrats wanted Slavery. Republicans won.
A Democrat launched the Trail of tears that nearly exterminated the Cherokee people.
An "anti-gun" Democrat was arrested for gun running today.
Do we really want to play this?
A few weeks back you talked about how nasty the back and forth on FB was getting and we should try to work together.
What happened?
With all due respect, CW Martin,
I did not state anything nasty or derogatory. Nor did I even mention political parties, let alone Democrats or Republicans as you have done.
The meme that I have posted uses the terms "conservatives" and "liberals" which are poitical perspectives, not political parties. Additionally, the meme only points out issues in which conservatives and liberals have differed and the results on each issue mentioned. The wording in the meme does not castigate or chastise or belittle; it simply states its point in nonjudgemental terminology.
For the life of me, I do not understand why you inferred anything other than what was stated. I did not personally comment on anything. I did not chastise or belittle anyone, I did not castigate or chastise or challenge any individual as you appear to be doing so to me as an individual in the comments you have written. Indeed, the wording used in and the inferred tone of your comments (as opposed to my blog entry) serve as a good example that illustrates the concerns I have expressed regarding Facebook dialogues to which you yourself referenced in your comments.
As a retired adjunct college instructor of political science and of American National Government, I believe it appropriate to mention that historically the political parties to which you refer, i.e. Republicans and Democrats, as well as other political parties, have both gone through periods of time in which they underwent (and still are undergoing) the processes of realignment and dealignment. Without further comment from me on that, I suggest you go to the following embedded link to read Party Identification Topic 2: Party Realignment and Dealignment..
Okay, Let me rephrase.
Conservatives oppose voting for a candidate several times, or when dead, by using voter ID.
Liberals won.
Conservatives oppose raising the minimum wage, causing many small businesses to shutter doors or move production overseas.
Liberals are winning.
Conservatives opposed unemployment insurance for illegal drug users and those who simply don't want to work.
Liberals are winning, going so far as to get the illegal drugs legalized.
Conservatives opposed the dumbing down of schools.
Fact is, since the decision on school prayer, American education has been on a slow slide downward. Liberals won their common core in many states, which guidelines make consequences minimal and the act of educating nearly useless. Thank God our governor got rid of that nonsense and set us to develop goals from which a student might get an education rather than a pat on the head.
Liberals won the Affordable care act.
If they want to claim that mess go ahead.
Point is, you don't put up such a meme not expecting someone to read between the lines. And you don't expect an intelligent person to not respond to things that are designed to be inflammatory, whether the enflaming agent is well hidden or not. And finally, while the parties do change with the times, the over all philosophy has ever been the same, and to defend a movement because of "that was in the past" and "I didn't mention anything about parties" is a cop-out.
While I didn't mention you in my last list of negatives (only bringing up the FB post about you personally), you took it personally. But I shouldn't take it personally if say, George W Bush takes a largely undeserved beating. Truth is I don't. Bush II made a lot of mistakes. But I will stand up when I see things I believe are biased or skewed.
Roland I enjoy most of your posts. But it seems a lot of times that I comment from "my side of the fence", you insist on taking it as a personal attack.
Lorne Michaels recently said that SNL avoids doing skits teasing liberals because they can't take a joke, where conservatives can take a joke at face value and shrug it off. No one will ever accuse Lorne of being a conservative. Honestly, if you are going to have political discussions, you can't take everything personal.
I expressed this a while back on your post about attacking those who serve in government. Once you are in the public eye, you become a target. Whether you are Jane Popstar out for a drink with the girls wearing no panties, or Joe Smalltownmayor caught with his hand in the cookie jar, you are a target. You have to get a thick skin if you wanna play the game. If my comment about that meme is going to get to you, you may want to re-assess.
Hey there, CW Martin!
As always, I thank you for your comments. I do appreciate your point-counterpoint approach. It is enlightening. As I reflect upon that which you have written and as I am responding here, a phrase comes to my mind, i.e. "All politics is personal."
At any rate, as the phrase came to my mind as I was composing this, I did a web search and came upon an interesting entry in the Daily Kos that was published on March 23, 2010 and I would ask that you read it. It is contained in the following embedded link: 'All politics is personal' byteacherken.
Again, I thank you for your thought-provoking comments. And thank you for putting up with me.
As I read the article, once again I saw the attacks about the Tea Party using the N-word, etc, etc, which I personally have NEVER heard despite tuning into a very TP talk show host on a semi-regular basis. In response to those things I'd have to say, you (the writer, not you, Roland) might learn more about the TP if you listened to actual mainstream members rather than the whackjobs that the media like to hunt down.
Another thing I noticed is THIS line:
"It is personal when you are willing to destroy our political system if you cannot persuade the people to give you the reins of power. Remember, you and your party had those reins, and were rejected by the American people in two successive elections, by fairly substantial margins." I find this amusing to be directed at the TP which is trying to UPHOLD the constitution, when the President has been quite clear in word and deed he's going to go around it if necessary.
It is easy for they writer, refusing to see both sides to accuse the TP of such things as subverting the government, but what he doesn't see is that HIS chosen politicians are doing the same thing AND conservatives (not just TPers, which I am not) feel that HIS beliefs are doing the same things he accuses them of.
IMHO, this is the kind of article that serves no useful purpose, and only serves to drag us down, because the writer is no more correct in his opinions than the people he lashes out against.
OOpps, lunch is calling, if I think of more on this, I'll be back. Just keep in mind, there are faces behind the rhetoric on our side, too. Like those who are losing coverage because of Obamacare making it too expensive on their employer. I know of a dude with autoimmune disease who has amazingly expensive treatments who is losing his coverage. Before, the work insurance made his costs somewhat manageable. Now, Even the cheapest plan he can get on the exchange is beyond him. Plus, he'll have to pay a fine if he doesn't bankrupt himself to pay for it. For every one Obamacare helps, there are a LOT it hurts.
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